Horrid nasty people. I tried to tone down the rants again Chris­t­ian cam­paign­ers in my own weblog entry about the Springer Opera due to family who are chris­tians, as it didn’t seem rel­e­vant to rant just then. I’m glad you pointed this out Jack, it’s a horrid state of affairs. Don’t they have any worse things to cam­paign about?

Thanks for the link to Living Waters - some­one could do with bless­ing their fonts (and I don’t mean bap­tismal ones). They forgot to men­tion how broken the trans­gen­dered are too: but The Chris­t­ian Insti­tute are making up the gap by cam­paign­ing hope­lessly against the UK Gender Recog­ni­tion Act: includ­ing using tac­tics like scar­ing vicars that they face 5000 pound fines if they out parsh­ioners (untrue), and ter­ri­fy­ing little old church ladies that they might meet one of us in the loo - really.

Sorry for the some­what offtopic rant…!

Posted by honey at 7pm on 24.02.05

Can I sug­gest that any “protest donations” be sent to a cancer char­ity other than Maggie’s Centres?

Stephen Green is con­vinced that “the Lord will reward” Maggie’s Cen­tres for their “principled stance”. Boost­ing this charity’s income at this stage will play right into his hands, and fur­ther con­vince him that he is doing the Lord’s Work.

Not only that, but it could be argued that Maggie’s Cen­tres were a bit pathetic in caving in on the strength of one phone call from this nut­case, and shouldn’t really be rewarded for their action.

I sug­gest donat­ing to the Cancer Research Fund instead:

http://​www.​can​cer​re​searchuk.​org/​d​onate/

Posted by David at 9am on 25.02.05

i love the phrase ‘sexual brokenness’.

Posted by hannah at 2pm on 25.02.05

David - I take your point, but I donated to Maggie’s in order to help make up for their losses at the hands of Chris­t­ian Voice, and I couldn’t really care less if Green (who I incread­ingly think is as mad as he is bad) takes this as evi­dence that his cam­paign was meant to help the char­ity out.

Also, given the press cov­er­age - it’s been inter­est­ing to see ‘charity snubs donation’ head­lines turn into ‘bullying chris­tians har­rass charity’ - any men­tion of an increase in dona­tions to Maggie’s is likely to focus on the horrid tac­tics of Green and co. Ie, he might take suc­cour from Maggie’s get­ting a boost in dona­tions, but less vile folk will be well aware that the Lord isn’t reward­ing anyone, the public are, and con­demn­ing CV as they do so.

Han - me too, it would be a sweet phrase in any other context.

Posted by Jack Mottram at 5pm on 25.02.05

I applaud the fine work of people like Mr Green. As a born again, Bible-​believing Chris­t­ian myself I share a deep moral con­cern for both Great Britain and for my own nation, the USA. There is a God, and He has estab­lished rules for human con­duct. Mil­lenia have proven these rules best for stable and pro­duc­tive soci­eties and for rais­ing healthy and happy chil­dren. My spouse and I cel­e­brate 31 years of mar­riage this year and God has blessed us with two won­der­ful chil­dren. We live by God’s Word (the Bible) and I rec­om­mend the Chris­t­ian life to anyone.

Bless you all and I hope you find hap­pi­ness and con­tent­ment in your lives too.

Posted by Daine Hattman at 5am on 27.02.05

Chris­t­ian Voice did what they had to do in rea­gards to Mag­gies. No Chrisi­tan organ­i­sa­tion includ­ing Chris­t­ian Voice would ever wish a char­ity to be denied valu­able chash. But when this cash is coming form a an Opera in which our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is degraded and humil­i­ated in such evil and ter­riyf­in­gly blas­phe­mous ways no money from this source should not be accepted. The money is tainted from sources of wrong. Now I see that many com­ments have been put on saying to donate which is cor­rect and the right thing to do. But you have missed the point. CV do not want no money to go to the char­ity what they ask is that the money is from sources in which Christ is not blas­phemed against in such ways. I dont sup­port any blas­phemy or any kind against Christ. Call­ing a Chris­t­ian organ­i­sa­tion scum and using foul lan­guage against them high lights the need for this coun­try to turn around and look to Christ one day you will all see the Glory of God and His Son Christ and you will also see that Chris­tain do not bully. Our view is to sup­port what God set out in the Bible not to condem but to up lift Bib­li­cal and Godly values. Con­tinue to give to cancer chair­ties by all means but under­stand that as a Chris­t­ian I must sup­port Gods work.

One more thing to add is that to any CHRIS­T­IAN read­ing this remem­ber that God is moving and that is proved by the fact that there is oppo­si­tion to CV as the other com­ments convey. Keep striv­ing in the work of Christ. God is at work and His work con­tin­ues. We shall not remain silent in the face of blas­phemy and imorality.

Posted by Phil at 2pm on 04.03.05

no money from this source should not be accepted

Are you absolutely sure that’s what you mean?

you will also see that Chris­tain do not bully

Well, yes, that was rather my point. CV are unchris­t­ian in their bul­ly­ing. That’s why I called them scum. I would never call good, decent, honest, char­i­ta­ble and loving Chris­tians scum.

If you really believe that your God needs your pro­tec­tion from a thor­oughly unfunny Opera, I’d pick another one. I hear Allah is big these days (same bloke, dif­fer­ent rules).

And Lord, if You are read­ing, please send a true Chris­t­ian to this web page, the illit­er­ate mouth-​frothers hell-​bent on twist­ing your man­i­festo of social­ism and tol­er­ance (New Tes­ta­ment) are really get­ting on my nerves.

Posted by Jack Mottram at 2pm on 04.03.05

Oh, and Daine, you sound like a lovely person, and best of luck to you and your family, but I have to take issue with your claim that ‘Millenia have proven these rules best for stable and pro­duc­tive soci­eties and for rais­ing healthy and happy children’. Tell that to a Jew being baked in an oven during the Inqui­si­tion, or an Infi­del being slain by a Cru­sader, or… you get the idea.

Posted by Jack Mottram at 2pm on 04.03.05

Daine, I’m sure that you will be making a great sign of protest, like that won­der­ful Stephen Greeen man, if you ever develop cancer. Your “Christian Voice” will not be silenced, I am sure, when you find out that the type of cancer you’ve got there is no cure for. Or that if they only had some more resources, they could make care for patients much better. Then a life of bomb­ing abor­tion clin­ics and threat­en­ing cancer char­i­ties will be all a-okay, because the Lord loves you. I can’t find the words to con­demn these bas­tards strongly enough.

Posted by Tom Morris at 5pm on 04.03.05

As a long term Chris­t­ian Priest, I wish to say how utterly offended I am by Chris­t­ian Voice. They cannot but be obcene to attack cancer char­i­ties. They must have a warped image of God, moulded in their image, if they think God needs them to stand up for them. Their views are a trav­esty of Christ’s heal­ing, rec­on­cil­ing sac­ri­fi­cial love. You will NEVER find the Jesus of the Scrip­tures being either shrill or con­dem­na­tory. And, inci­den­tally, I am sure that he rejoices ar every true, deep, human rela­tion­ship - includ­ing those between the same sex.

Posted by Edda at 1am on 05.03.05

Jack, I have been read­ing through your com­ments and feel that your colou­ful lan­guage is really the only thing that you have to defend your­self with. I do believe myself that of course people need sup­port when they or people they love suffer form cancer - but the point that Chris­t­ian Voice were making was that it wasnt in any was ‘threatening’ as people seem to think but merely point­ing out to maggie’s that if they were to have accepted the dona­tion from the Gerry Springer show it would have been a sign that they them­slves were sup­port­ing the blas­phe­mous themes that the show pro­motes. I and many other Chris­tians know that the amount of response that the oppos­tion that Chris­t­ian Voice has received over this matter is just satans way of trying to oppose us. And quite frankly it will not have any affect. If you have ever actu­ally read the bible or lis­tened to what the Chris­t­ian faith belives in I think you would have been able to learn that God pre­vails. I assume that you par­take in the cel­e­bra­tions of Christ­mas and Easter whether that is just buying presents or Easter eggs - but in case you didnt already know but those two sig­nif­i­cant events came about because Jesus was born which is why (I assume again) that you your­self par­tic­i­pated in Nativ­ity Plays at school oh and sung Christ­mas songs such as….Away in a manger..? Easter is when Chris­tians pri­mar­ily remem­ber that Jesus died for us - (that’s ever­body in the world) and took away our sins. He saved us. I dont want to insult your inteligence too much - but you can clearly see by what I have just said that Chris­tians feel very strongly about their faith - oh which is pre­cisely why we do not like to see it taken for granted, hence the uproar about the Gerry Springer show. I am still assum­ing that you’ve under­stood all that i have just written… And yet my ques­tion to you is this; Why, if Chris­tians are a little defen­sive about the blas­phemy of their faith that when they protest - there is a big dis­pute about the impor­tance of stand­ing up for what they believe in. Yet when a play comes out about a Sikh that rapes in a temple, is the Sikh com­mu­nity lis­tened to and respected and almost imme­di­ately the play banned from being shown? From what i have gath­ered you your­self do not belive in God or any other reli­gion - so why not create havoc about the oppos­tion about that play? Per­son­ally i think that satan is at work in your life and he knows that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are at work - and he doesn’t like it and he is show­ing his anger at the thought that he will be beaten again and is doing this through you and many others. I would like it - if you have free will to make up your mind, if you would maybe read the bible, or per­haps seek some advice about the way your life is being lead. I think that if you even tried to be a neu­tral person - God may even have an effect on your life also.

Posted by frances at 11pm on 05.03.05

I can’t believe what some Chris­tians here are saying. I am a Chris­t­ian and I deplore what CV are doing. The talk of “Tainted money” is so ridicu­lus as to envke scorn. Was Zac­cheus money exactly pure? Was the Rich Trader’s money which Jesus ordered to be given away won by fair trade? To accept this money wouldbn’t have been blas­phe­mous or against the bible in anyway. What is against the bible is send­ing death-​threats to actors, threat­en­ing abor­tion clin­ics with vio­lence ect. These “crusades” are not Chris­t­ian. They are simply excuses for a release of hatred. Didn’t Jesus speak out against these reli­gious pick­et­ing to sat­isfy peo­ples need for hate? Didn’t Jesus preach love between one another, not hatred. Even if they can be con­strued as blas­pho­mous (I merely think that JSTO is just an unfunny joke set out to win watch­ers by being controversial)what CV are doing is merely making a mock­ery of Jesus’ love and FOR­GIVE­NESS to one another. People like this are noth­ing new - Phare­sees, Saducees, Medi­val Cru­saders and the many cults around have been twist­ing the Word of God for their own means for ages. The only anti­dote to this is the real Word of God - read the whole Bible, don’t just pick out words out of con­text and form a whole stance on them. Sorry for the extended rant but these people really do annoy me.

Posted by Jon at 4pm on 06.03.05

Frances - I’m loathe to respond to your rather patro­n­is­ing com­ment, but, hey, I don’t have a telly at the moment, and I just fin­ished read­ing the paper.

First, I will not accept that Chris­t­ian Voice’s actions towards Maggie’s Cen­tres were any­thing other than bul­ly­ing. I do accept that many Chris­tians find Jerry Springer - The Opera (that’s Jerry, not ‘Gerry’, by the way) offen­sive, but cannot accept that the proper Chris­t­ian response was to threaten to picket the offices of the char­ity. I refer you to the Gospel of Mathew, Chap­ter 5 (I think - I moved house recently and haven’t yet unpacked any of my Bibles), which goes some­thing like this: “You have heard it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist he who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” That’s Jesus, your Lord and Sav­iour speak­ing there, in case you didn’t already know.

A quick aside: Easter and Christ­mas are pagan fes­ti­vals co-​opted by the early church to ease the tran­si­tion from one faith to the other among West­ern Euro­pean con­verts. I don’t recall much in the Old or New Tes­ta­ments about eggs and rab­bits, those earthy fer­til­ity sym­bols we cel­e­brate at Easter, nor have I seen the slight­est shred of evi­dence that the birth of Jesus can be dated pre­cisely to the West­ern Euro­pean mid­win­ter. In fact, for a long while, the birth of Christ was not cel­e­brated by Chris­tians at all and I’m sure that the ear­li­est ref­er­ence to Decem­ber 25th as ‘Christmas’ is in the Philo­calian Cal­en­dar, a doc­u­ment of late Roman Chris­t­ian prac­tice. For what it’s worth, I do indeed cel­e­brate Christ­mas, in pretty much the pagan mode, though as an athe­ist, with lots of drink and gifts and fun with my family to cheer us up in the middle of winter. Easter, not so much, though I am fond of a Cadbury’s Creme Egg.

The above - which I didn’t even need to Google for, and I have a ter­ri­ble memory! - leads me on to your silly jibes about my knowl­edge of Chris­t­ian prac­tice. All famil­iar stuff to me, love, what with the C of E pri­mary school edu­ca­tion, Chapel every morn­ing through­out sec­ondary school, then, at Uni­ver­sity, a fas­ci­nat­ing term study­ing the impos­si­bly beau­ti­ful lan­guage of the King James ver­sion of the Bible, fol­lowed not long after by a course in the phi­los­o­phy of reli­gion. So, if you fancy a dis­cus­sion of the erotic poetry of the Song of Solomon (“Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth: for thy love is better than any wine” etc. etc. - beau­ti­ful and strange!), or an argu­ment on, I dunno, the inher­ently con­tra­dic­tory nature of God as defined by the monothe­is­tic reli­gions with regard to His immutabil­ity and omni­science, then, come ahead, let’s go right now, toe to toe - I’ll wipe the floor with you. My apolo­gies for com­mit­ing the sin of pride there, but that I am still assum­ing that you’ve under­stood all that i have just writ­ten line of yours line really got my goat. From what you have writ­ten here, you seem to have a car­toon­ish view of the Bible, a read­ing based on simple faith, not under­stand­ing. I’ve read that Book, so please don’t patro­n­ise me from below, it makes you look silly.

What’s next? Oh yeah, the Sikh thing. Do you imag­ine for a moment that I sup­port the rep­re­hen­si­ble actions of a tiny but vocal minor­ity of the Sikh com­mu­nity any more than I do the vile ways of Chris­t­ian Voice, or folk like your­self? Of course I don’t, the whole bloody point of my posts on CV’s bul­ly­ing tac­tics is that the reli­gious views of a small minor­ity in soci­ety cannot be allowed to influ­ence wider soci­ety, whether that’s with regard to a cancer char­ity being forced into refus­ing funds from a rub­bish comic opera or a the­atre being pre­vented from pre­sent­ing a rather inter­est­ing play about the posi­tion of women within strict Sikh soci­ety. I admit that I didn’t ‘create havoc’ about the pre­ma­ture clo­sure of Behzti (that’s the play we’re talk­ing about, in case you didn’t already know) - my bad, I was fairly furi­ous about that too, but I don’t post about every last bit of news to my website.

I sup­pose I should finish by thank­ing you - I know that when you say that you fear Satan may be work­ing in my life, and that I should have a look at the Bible (a book I am absolutely cer­tain I know better than you do, by the way) that you prob­a­bly mean well. So, I’ll say the same to you: read the New Tes­ta­ment, please. Maybe start with the Sermon on the Mount - that’s Mathew again, Chap­ters 5, 6 and 7, in case you didn’t already know - I take issue with that boring bit about ‘Thou shalt not for­swear thyself’ (as you noticed, I’m a fan of the colour­ful lan­guage!) but the rest of it is some­thing you could really learn from. Or, since I keep return­ing to Mathew (it’s my favourite Gospel, maybe first equal with Mark), per­haps you could turn to Acts, to read about the way the early Chris­tians were so keen on common own­er­ship, and on… char­ity. Heck, even the story of Enoch is pretty clear on that stuff, and it’s in the Old Tes­ta­ment. I think you’ll find that there’s not a great deal in the New Tes­ta­ment about the angry God you refer to at the end of your com­ment, nor much that can be used to jus­tify the actions of Chris­t­ian Voice, who insult true Chris­tians by using that name (people like Jon and Edda - thanks for stop­ping by you two, looks like my nonex­is­tant old pal God heard my ear­lier prayer!).

So, yeah, God has had ‘an effect on [my] life’ already, thanks, in the sense that I’ve read those texts people who believe in Him believe to be His word, and found much of inter­est in them, both as lit­er­a­ture and as phi­los­o­phy. I’d even go so far as to say that I, an unbe­liever, have better under­stood the ‘Christian message’ than you, a believer, has, and, in the unlikely event that all the super­sti­tion sur­round­ing the right-​on phi­los­o­phy of the New Tes­ta­ment is true, I’ll be safe and sound in Heaven, having a wee chuckle with Jesus about the benighted folk who missed the point of His teach­ings so much that they thought their hatred of a silly song or two from Jerry Springer - The Opera was more impor­tant than caring for people dying of cancer.

(Um, apolo­gies to anyone who’s both­ered to read this far - I got a little car­ried away there - blame the two pints of cider before tea!)

Posted by Jack Mottram at 1am on 09.03.05

Spot the dif­fer­ence: Muslim fun­da­men­tal­ist and Chris­t­ian Voice.

Nope. Still can’t see any

Posted by Phil at 3pm on 16.09.05

MMMMM! As a Chris­t­ian, I believe that in all mat­ters of moral­ity and con­duct, the teach­ing of the Bible should be con­sulted. Firstly my Bible tells me that we should speak to all people with gen­tlesness and respect ( 2 Peter 3 verse 16). It also tells me not to judge others (Matt 7), but to reserve judge­ment for the Lord. How­ever, even God is patient with the world, not want­ing to judge it, but to save it! ( through the aton­ing sac­ri­fice of his Son on the cross. The penalty of the wicked being paid vol­un­tar­ily and in full by a totally inno­cent man).Romans 3. How­ever ,being a totally right­eous and holy God who cannot let sin go unpunished-​he has reserved a day for judge­ment when all of our thoughts, motives and actions will face the judge­ment of a holy God! A ter­ri­fy­ing prospect!(Matt 12v36)
In the mean time we are to judge our own hearts so that we will not need to be judged. Indeed if there is to be any judge­ment it is to begin in the church 1 Peter 4 v 17.. We are called to judge other Christians-​with extreme carefulness-​in case we should also sin-. I don’t recall a verse that says we are to per­son­ally judge non-​believers. Is this The Way?

Posted by Dr A Maye at 9am on 13.11.05

It is with much sorrow that I have con­cluded that the cur­rent rep­re­sen­ta­tives of the ‘great reli­gions of the world’ have very little to offer mankind.

They seek noth­ing less than to con­vert reli­gious move­ments into polit­i­cal clubs run exclu­sively for the ben­e­fit of them­selves and their exclu­sive membership.

The pri­mary objec­tive of these clubs would seem to be the exter­mi­na­tion of the mem­bers of any rival club by any means possible.

I dont think I could seek to hurt another person because I thought my imag­i­nary friend was better than his - if it came to it I think I would prob­a­bly opt to drive the pair of us around to the near­est funny farm for urgent therapy.

If there is a super entity that cre­ated ‘all that therein is’ and if such entity is look­ing down and watch­ing this sorry sham­bles of pur­ported rep­re­sen­ta­tives I would imag­ine he/she/it must be in deep dispair.

Green and his crack pot ‘holier than thou’ band of tossers have noth­ing at all to offer the world what­so­ever - at least Springer had a few bits that made me laugh.

On reflec­tion, I think what actu­ally made me laugh was the antic­i­pa­tion of the out­rage from the lunatics like Green rather than the story line of the musical.

I only dare to rep­re­sent myself - how on earth does this Green pratt think he rep­re­sents God, is it because he has set up a web­site that says that he is?

Posted by bernie at 3pm on 18.05.06

Mr Green and his band of men (or should I say hand­full), no dis­re­spect to women but he doesn’t con­sider you high enough in soci­ety (he has been quoted that we should not cel­e­brate the suc­cess of women), have cer­tainly achieved the goal of max­i­mum pub­lic­ity, even at the expense of others.
If you take a visit to the web­site of CV you will notice that the “Jerry Springer Demo”, for which they gained notice, takes second part. The main “gripes” with soci­ety is people who are gay (espe­cially the police). Mr Green has even ded­i­cated a sep­a­rate web­site to “True Vision”, a web­site set up by the police to help report homo­pho­bic, racist and (iron­i­cally) religous hate crime. His spoof web­site rants on about gay police offi­cers being unable to con­duct inves­ti­ga­tions iinto child abuse because “most gay men were vic­tims at an early age and there­fore find chil­dren sex­ully attractive”. He doesn’t stop, he goes on with all kinds of rants which pre-​judge any gay police offi­cer.
My opin­ion, with­out quotes from the bible, is by judg­ing these people he is com­mit­ing a sin.
Anyway, take a look at http://​www.​true-​vision.org and see for yourself.

Posted by Tony at 12pm on 26.05.06

Chris­t­ian Voice are FUCK­ING cranks why dont they do us all a favour and have a mass sui­cide over easter weekend?

Posted by guy at 10pm on 06.04.07

Your filthy words, obvi­ous hatred and pro abor­tion, homo atti­tude serves only to dis­play your igno­rance and dis­dain for scrip­ture. If Springer wanted to donate he could have sent in anonymously.

You are just an anti-​Christian zealot and you need to repent.

Posted by voice of reason at 5am on 01.12.07

Chris­t­ian Voice are great! As some­one who opposes reli­gion I would have to work very hard to show how super­sti­tious, big­ot­ted and intol­er­ant it is. Stephen Green and Chris­t­ian Voice do all that for me every time they talk in public. They show that Chris­tians are bigots who deserve the same lack of respect they give to others. They really are doing the work of athe­ists like me by bring­ing their reli­gion into dis­re­pute. Athe­ists should donate money to them to con­tinue their good work.

Posted by Paul at 12pm on 09.01.09

Invi­ta­tion­To­Visit:

The attached resource links pro­vide sup­port for Chris­t­ian men and women to take back con­trol of their lives within the moral­ity of Chris­tian­ity and not remain sub­mis­sive to the dic­tates of mis­di­rected reli­gious ideas emerg­ing within the culture.

http://​chris​t​ian-​birth​con​trol.​angel​ci​ties.​com/​i​n​d​e​x​.html

Chris­tians have always had the free­dom to use birth con­trol under Bib­li­cal man­dates of per­sonal liberty.

http://​chris​t​ian-​new​covenant.​angel​ci​ties.​com/​i​n​d​e​x​.html

Online Exam­i­na­tion Of What The New Covenant of Christ did for per­sonal lib­erty for men and women.

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