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1. Horrid nasty people. I tried to tone down the rants again Christian campaigners in my own weblog entry about the Springer Opera due to family who are christians, as it didn’t seem relevant to rant just then. I’m glad you pointed this out Jack, it’s a horrid state of affairs. Don’t they have any worse things to campaign about?

   Thanks for the link to Living Waters - someone could do with blessing their fonts (and I don’t mean baptismal ones). They forgot to mention how broken the transgendered are too: but The Christian Institute are making up the gap by campaigning hopelessly against the UK Gender Recognition Act: including using tactics like scaring vicars that they face 5000 pound fines if they out parshioners (untrue), and terrifying little old church ladies that they might meet one of us in the loo - really.

   Sorry for the somewhat offtopic rant…!

   Posted by honey at 7pm on 24.02.05

2. Can I suggest that any “protest donations” be sent to a cancer charity other than Maggie’s Centres?

   Stephen Green is convinced that “the Lord will reward” Maggie’s Centres for their “principled stance”. Boosting this charity’s income at this stage will play right into his hands, and further convince him that he is doing the Lord’s Work.

   Not only that, but it could be argued that Maggie’s Centres were a bit pathetic in caving in on the strength of one phone call from this nutcase, and shouldn’t really be rewarded for their action.

   I suggest donating to the Cancer Research Fund instead:

   http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/donate/

   Posted by David at 9am on 25.02.05

3. i love the phrase ‘sexual brokenness’.

   Posted by hannah at 2pm on 25.02.05

4. David - I take your point, but I donated to Maggie’s in order to help make up for their losses at the hands of Christian Voice, and I couldn’t really care less if Green (who I increadingly think is as mad as he is bad) takes this as evidence that his campaign was meant to help the charity out.

   Also, given the press coverage - it’s been interesting to see ‘charity snubs donation’ headlines turn into ‘bullying christians harrass charity’ - any mention of an increase in donations to Maggie’s is likely to focus on the horrid tactics of Green and co. Ie, he might take succour from Maggie’s getting a boost in donations, but less vile folk will be well aware that the Lord isn’t rewarding anyone, the public are, and condemning CV as they do so.

   Han - me too, it would be a sweet phrase in any other context.

   Posted by Jack Mottram at 5pm on 25.02.05

5. I applaud the fine work of people like Mr Green. As a born again, Bible-believing Christian myself I share a deep moral concern for both Great Britain and for my own nation, the USA. There is a God, and He has established rules for human conduct. Millenia have proven these rules best for stable and productive societies and for raising healthy and happy children. My spouse and I celebrate 31 years of marriage this year and God has blessed us with two wonderful children. We live by God’s Word (the Bible) and I recommend the Christian life to anyone.

   Bless you all and I hope you find happiness and contentment in your lives too.

   Posted by Daine Hattman at 5am on 27.02.05

6. Christian Voice did what they had to do in reagards to Maggies. No Chrisitan organisation including Christian Voice would ever wish a charity to be denied valuable chash. But when this cash is coming form a an Opera in which our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is degraded and humiliated in such evil and terriyfingly blasphemous ways no money from this source should not be accepted. The money is tainted from sources of wrong. Now I see that many comments have been put on saying to donate which is correct and the right thing to do. But you have missed the point. CV do not want no money to go to the charity what they ask is that the money is from sources in which Christ is not blasphemed against in such ways. I dont support any blasphemy or any kind against Christ. Calling a Christian organisation scum and using foul language against them high lights the need for this country to turn around and look to Christ one day you will all see the Glory of God and His Son Christ and you will also see that Christain do not bully. Our view is to support what God set out in the Bible not to condem but to up lift Biblical and Godly values. Continue to give to cancer chairties by all means but understand that as a Christian I must support Gods work.

   One more thing to add is that to any CHRISTIAN reading this remember that God is moving and that is proved by the fact that there is opposition to CV as the other comments convey. Keep striving in the work of Christ. God is at work and His work continues. We shall not remain silent in the face of blasphemy and imorality.

   Posted by Phil at 2pm on 04.03.05

7. no money from this source should not be accepted

   Are you absolutely sure that’s what you mean?

   you will also see that Christain do not bully

   Well, yes, that was rather my point. CV are unchristian in their bullying. That’s why I called them scum. I would never call good, decent, honest, charitable and loving Christians scum.

   If you really believe that your God needs your protection from a thoroughly unfunny Opera, I’d pick another one. I hear Allah is big these days (same bloke, different rules).

   And Lord, if You are reading, please send a true Christian to this web page, the illiterate mouth-frothers hell-bent on twisting your manifesto of socialism and tolerance (New Testament) are really getting on my nerves.

   Posted by Jack Mottram at 2pm on 04.03.05

8. Oh, and Daine, you sound like a lovely person, and best of luck to you and your family, but I have to take issue with your claim that ‘Millenia have proven these rules best for stable and productive societies and for raising healthy and happy children’. Tell that to a Jew being baked in an oven during the Inquisition, or an Infidel being slain by a Crusader, or… you get the idea.

   Posted by Jack Mottram at 2pm on 04.03.05

9. Daine, I’m sure that you will be making a great sign of protest, like that wonderful Stephen Greeen man, if you ever develop cancer. Your “Christian Voice” will not be silenced, I am sure, when you find out that the type of cancer you’ve got there is no cure for. Or that if they only had some more resources, they could make care for patients much better. Then a life of bombing abortion clinics and threatening cancer charities will be all a-okay, because the Lord loves you. I can’t find the words to condemn these bastards strongly enough.

   Posted by Tom Morris at 5pm on 04.03.05

10. As a long term Christian Priest, I wish to say how utterly offended I am by Christian Voice. They cannot but be obcene to attack cancer charities. They must have a warped image of God, moulded in their image, if they think God needs them to stand up for them. Their views are a travesty of Christ’s healing, reconciling sacrificial love. You will NEVER find the Jesus of the Scriptures being either shrill or condemnatory. And, incidentally, I am sure that he rejoices ar every true, deep, human relationship - including those between the same sex.

    Posted by Edda at 1am on 05.03.05

11. Jack, I have been reading through your comments and feel that your colouful language is really the only thing that you have to defend yourself with. I do believe myself that of course people need support when they or people they love suffer form cancer - but the point that Christian Voice were making was that it wasnt in any was ‘threatening’ as people seem to think but merely pointing out to maggie’s that if they were to have accepted the donation from the Gerry Springer show it would have been a sign that they themslves were supporting the blasphemous themes that the show promotes. I and many other Christians know that the amount of response that the oppostion that Christian Voice has received over this matter is just satans way of trying to oppose us. And quite frankly it will not have any affect. If you have ever actually read the bible or listened to what the Christian faith belives in I think you would have been able to learn that God prevails. I assume that you partake in the celebrations of Christmas and Easter whether that is just buying presents or Easter eggs - but in case you didnt already know but those two significant events came about because Jesus was born which is why (I assume again) that you yourself participated in Nativity Plays at school oh and sung Christmas songs such as….Away in a manger..? Easter is when Christians primarily remember that Jesus died for us - (that’s everbody in the world) and took away our sins. He saved us. I dont want to insult your inteligence too much - but you can clearly see by what I have just said that Christians feel very strongly about their faith - oh which is precisely why we do not like to see it taken for granted, hence the uproar about the Gerry Springer show. I am still assuming that you’ve understood all that i have just written… And yet my question to you is this; Why, if Christians are a little defensive about the blasphemy of their faith that when they protest - there is a big dispute about the importance of standing up for what they believe in. Yet when a play comes out about a Sikh that rapes in a temple, is the Sikh community listened to and respected and almost immediately the play banned from being shown? From what i have gathered you yourself do not belive in God or any other religion - so why not create havoc about the oppostion about that play? Personally i think that satan is at work in your life and he knows that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are at work - and he doesn’t like it and he is showing his anger at the thought that he will be beaten again and is doing this through you and many others. I would like it - if you have free will to make up your mind, if you would maybe read the bible, or perhaps seek some advice about the way your life is being lead. I think that if you even tried to be a neutral person - God may even have an effect on your life also.

    Posted by frances at 11pm on 05.03.05

12. I can’t believe what some Christians here are saying. I am a Christian and I deplore what CV are doing. The talk of “Tainted money” is so ridiculus as to envke scorn. Was Zaccheus money exactly pure? Was the Rich Trader’s money which Jesus ordered to be given away won by fair trade? To accept this money wouldbn’t have been blasphemous or against the bible in anyway. What is against the bible is sending death-threats to actors, threatening abortion clinics with violence ect. These “crusades” are not Christian. They are simply excuses for a release of hatred. Didn’t Jesus speak out against these religious picketing to satisfy peoples need for hate? Didn’t Jesus preach love between one another, not hatred. Even if they can be construed as blasphomous (I merely think that JSTO is just an unfunny joke set out to win watchers by being controversial)what CV are doing is merely making a mockery of Jesus’ love and FORGIVENESS to one another. People like this are nothing new - Pharesees, Saducees, Medival Crusaders and the many cults around have been twisting the Word of God for their own means for ages. The only antidote to this is the real Word of God - read the whole Bible, don’t just pick out words out of context and form a whole stance on them. Sorry for the extended rant but these people really do annoy me.

    Posted by Jon at 4pm on 06.03.05

13. Frances - I’m loathe to respond to your rather patronising comment, but, hey, I don’t have a telly at the moment, and I just finished reading the paper.

    First, I will not accept that Christian Voice’s actions towards Maggie’s Centres were anything other than bullying. I do accept that many Christians find Jerry Springer - The Opera (that’s Jerry, not ‘Gerry’, by the way) offensive, but cannot accept that the proper Christian response was to threaten to picket the offices of the charity. I refer you to the Gospel of Mathew, Chapter 5 (I think - I moved house recently and haven’t yet unpacked any of my Bibles), which goes something like this: “You have heard it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist he who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” That’s Jesus, your Lord and Saviour speaking there, in case you didn’t already know.

    A quick aside: Easter and Christmas are pagan festivals co-opted by the early church to ease the transition from one faith to the other among Western European converts. I don’t recall much in the Old or New Testaments about eggs and rabbits, those earthy fertility symbols we celebrate at Easter, nor have I seen the slightest shred of evidence that the birth of Jesus can be dated precisely to the Western European midwinter. In fact, for a long while, the birth of Christ was not celebrated by Christians at all and I’m sure that the earliest reference to December 25th as ‘Christmas’ is in the Philocalian Calendar, a document of late Roman Christian practice. For what it’s worth, I do indeed celebrate Christmas, in pretty much the pagan mode, though as an atheist, with lots of drink and gifts and fun with my family to cheer us up in the middle of winter. Easter, not so much, though I am fond of a Cadbury’s Creme Egg.

    The above - which I didn’t even need to Google for, and I have a terrible memory! - leads me on to your silly jibes about my knowledge of Christian practice. All familiar stuff to me, love, what with the C of E primary school education, Chapel every morning throughout secondary school, then, at University, a fascinating term studying the impossibly beautiful language of the King James version of the Bible, followed not long after by a course in the philosophy of religion. So, if you fancy a discussion of the erotic poetry of the Song of Solomon (“Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth: for thy love is better than any wine” etc. etc. - beautiful and strange!), or an argument on, I dunno, the inherently contradictory nature of God as defined by the monotheistic religions with regard to His immutability and omniscience, then, come ahead, let’s go right now, toe to toe - I’ll wipe the floor with you. My apologies for commiting the sin of pride there, but that I am still assuming that you’ve understood all that i have just written line of yours line really got my goat. From what you have written here, you seem to have a cartoonish view of the Bible, a reading based on simple faith, not understanding. I’ve read that Book, so please don’t patronise me from below, it makes you look silly.

    What’s next? Oh yeah, the Sikh thing. Do you imagine for a moment that I support the reprehensible actions of a tiny but vocal minority of the Sikh community any more than I do the vile ways of Christian Voice, or folk like yourself? Of course I don’t, the whole bloody point of my posts on CV’s bullying tactics is that the religious views of a small minority in society cannot be allowed to influence wider society, whether that’s with regard to a cancer charity being forced into refusing funds from a rubbish comic opera or a theatre being prevented from presenting a rather interesting play about the position of women within strict Sikh society. I admit that I didn’t ‘create havoc’ about the premature closure of Behzti (that’s the play we’re talking about, in case you didn’t already know) - my bad, I was fairly furious about that too, but I don’t post about every last bit of news to my website.

    I suppose I should finish by thanking you - I know that when you say that you fear Satan may be working in my life, and that I should have a look at the Bible (a book I am absolutely certain I know better than you do, by the way) that you probably mean well. So, I’ll say the same to you: read the New Testament, please. Maybe start with the Sermon on the Mount - that’s Mathew again, Chapters 5, 6 and 7, in case you didn’t already know - I take issue with that boring bit about ‘Thou shalt not forswear thyself’ (as you noticed, I’m a fan of the colourful language!) but the rest of it is something you could really learn from. Or, since I keep returning to Mathew (it’s my favourite Gospel, maybe first equal with Mark), perhaps you could turn to Acts, to read about the way the early Christians were so keen on common ownership, and on… charity. Heck, even the story of Enoch is pretty clear on that stuff, and it’s in the Old Testament. I think you’ll find that there’s not a great deal in the New Testament about the angry God you refer to at the end of your comment, nor much that can be used to justify the actions of Christian Voice, who insult true Christians by using that name (people like Jon and Edda - thanks for stopping by you two, looks like my nonexistant old pal God heard my earlier prayer!).

    So, yeah, God has had ‘an effect on [my] life’ already, thanks, in the sense that I’ve read those texts people who believe in Him believe to be His word, and found much of interest in them, both as literature and as philosophy. I’d even go so far as to say that I, an unbeliever, have better understood the ‘Christian message’ than you, a believer, has, and, in the unlikely event that all the superstition surrounding the right-on philosophy of the New Testament is true, I’ll be safe and sound in Heaven, having a wee chuckle with Jesus about the benighted folk who missed the point of His teachings so much that they thought their hatred of a silly song or two from Jerry Springer - The Opera was more important than caring for people dying of cancer.

    (Um, apologies to anyone who’s bothered to read this far - I got a little carried away there - blame the two pints of cider before tea!)

    Posted by Jack Mottram at 1am on 09.03.05

14. Spot the difference: Muslim fundamentalist and Christian Voice.

    Nope. Still can’t see any

    Posted by Phil at 3pm on 16.09.05

15. MMMMM! As a Christian, I believe that in all matters of morality and conduct, the teaching of the Bible should be consulted. Firstly my Bible tells me that we should speak to all people with gentlesness and respect ( 2 Peter 3 verse 16). It also tells me not to judge others (Matt 7), but to reserve judgement for the Lord. However, even God is patient with the world, not wanting to judge it, but to save it! ( through the atoning sacrifice of his Son on the cross. The penalty of the wicked being paid voluntarily and in full by a totally innocent man).Romans 3. However ,being a totally righteous and holy God who cannot let sin go unpunished-he has reserved a day for judgement when all of our thoughts, motives and actions will face the judgement of a holy God! A terrifying prospect!(Matt 12v36)
    In the mean time we are to judge our own hearts so that we will not need to be judged. Indeed if there is to be any judgement it is to begin in the church 1 Peter 4 v 17.. We are called to judge other Christians-with extreme carefulness-in case we should also sin-. I don’t recall a verse that says we are to personally judge non-believers. Is this The Way?

    Posted by Dr A Maye at 9am on 13.11.05

16. It is with much sorrow that I have concluded that the current representatives of the ‘great religions of the world’ have very little to offer mankind.

    They seek nothing less than to convert religious movements into political clubs run exclusively for the benefit of themselves and their exclusive membership.

    The primary objective of these clubs would seem to be the extermination of the members of any rival club by any means possible.

    I dont think I could seek to hurt another person because I thought my imaginary friend was better than his - if it came to it I think I would probably opt to drive the pair of us around to the nearest funny farm for urgent therapy.

    If there is a super entity that created ‘all that therein is’ and if such entity is looking down and watching this sorry shambles of purported representatives I would imagine he/she/it must be in deep dispair.

    Green and his crack pot ‘holier than thou’ band of tossers have nothing at all to offer the world whatsoever - at least Springer had a few bits that made me laugh.

    On reflection, I think what actually made me laugh was the anticipation of the outrage from the lunatics like Green rather than the story line of the musical.

    I only dare to represent myself - how on earth does this Green pratt think he represents God, is it because he has set up a website that says that he is?

    Posted by bernie at 3pm on 18.05.06

17. Mr Green and his band of men (or should I say handfull), no disrespect to women but he doesn’t consider you high enough in society (he has been quoted that we should not celebrate the success of women), have certainly achieved the goal of maximum publicity, even at the expense of others.
    If you take a visit to the website of CV you will notice that the “Jerry Springer Demo”, for which they gained notice, takes second part. The main “gripes” with society is people who are gay (especially the police). Mr Green has even dedicated a separate website to “True Vision”, a website set up by the police to help report homophobic, racist and (ironically) religous hate crime. His spoof website rants on about gay police officers being unable to conduct investigations iinto child abuse because “most gay men were victims at an early age and therefore find children sexully attractive”. He doesn’t stop, he goes on with all kinds of rants which pre-judge any gay police officer.
    My opinion, without quotes from the bible, is by judging these people he is commiting a sin.
    Anyway, take a look at http://www.true-vision.org and see for yourself.

    Posted by Tony at 12pm on 26.05.06

18. Christian Voice are FUCKING cranks why dont they do us all a favour and have a mass suicide over easter weekend?

    Posted by guy at 10pm on 06.04.07

19. Your filthy words, obvious hatred and pro abortion, homo attitude serves only to display your ignorance and disdain for scripture. If Springer wanted to donate he could have sent in anonymously.

    You are just an anti-Christian zealot and you need to repent.

    Posted by voice of reason at 5am on 01.12.07

20. You might want to check the meaning of the word ‘reason’, voice of reason.

    Posted by Jack Mottram at 1pm on 01.12.07

21. Christian Voice are great! As someone who opposes religion I would have to work very hard to show how superstitious, bigotted and intolerant it is. Stephen Green and Christian Voice do all that for me every time they talk in public. They show that Christians are bigots who deserve the same lack of respect they give to others. They really are doing the work of atheists like me by bringing their religion into disrepute. Atheists should donate money to them to continue their good work.

    Posted by Paul at 12pm on 09.01.09

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