Submit Response

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Submit Response is a weblog by Jack Mottram, a journalist who lives in Glasgow, Scotland. There are 1308 posts in the archives. You can subscribe to a feed. This post was made on May 25, 2003 and belongs in the web category. The previous post was The Cloud, and the next post is Testing Memigo.

Blog Discussion and Citation

Tom Coates weighs in with a great analy­sis of dis­cus­sion and cita­tion in the world of weblogs, seek­ing to refute the claim made at iWire that the blo­gos­phere envi­ron­ment actu­ally con­spires against the suc­cess­ful evo­lu­tion of dif­fi­cult ideas and draw­ing on Microdoc News’ dis­sec­tion of the dynam­ics of a blo­gos­phere story.

His cen­tral anal­ogy is sound - when weblogs seize on a sub­ject, the com­bined use of hyper­text and dis­creet blocks of con­tent comes to mirror aca­d­e­mic cita­tion in research papers, with valu­able con­tri­bu­tions to a given debate gain­ing expo­sure thanks to a form of peer review, with blogs at the mar­gins serv­ing as arbiters of qual­ity by link­ing to points in the con­ver­sa­tion they see as significant.

Think of this post as an essay by an obscure post­grad­u­ate researcher, riff­ing on the ideas in Tom’s, which is equiv­a­lent to a paper deliv­ered at con­fer­ence to his pro­fes­so­r­ial peers — I’m not bring­ing much to the debate, but my cita­tion adds value to the orig­i­nal asser­tion. Unfor­tu­nately, acad­e­mia and the world of weblogs share other char­ac­ter­is­tics, includ­ing a hier­ar­chi­cal struc­ture - vide the many whinges about an ‘A-list.’ And that struc­ture gets in the way. Say I had some­thing earth-​shattering to say on the topic of infor­ma­tion flow in weblog con­ver­sa­tions and posted it here, ref­er­enc­ing Tom’s piece (I don’t, but that’s by the by!) Sure, Blogdex, Tech­nocrati et al would reg­is­ter my cita­tion, and push the post I cited up the indices, cement­ing its posi­tion at the centre of the debate, but my earth-​shattering propo­si­tion would go unheeded because few folk read Submit Response in the first place, and those that do don’t have weblogs (hard to imag­ine, I know).

I’m not doubt­ing that, as Tom says, debate across weblogs self-​organises in a pretty useful way at the moment, but I would say that this self-​organisation is too close to the aca­d­e­mic research pro­to­type. Weblog con­ver­sa­tions are just like accel­er­ated, minia­ture aca­d­e­mic debates, but the poten­tial is there for a new model that replaces the pyra­mid of a group­ing of influ­en­tial com­men­tary sup­ported from below by a mass of cita­tion with a flat­ter struc­ture, where rank­ing by ‘microcontent vote’ is com­bined with some sort of seman­tic index­ing to draw valu­able points made at the bottom of the pile toward the top. Of course, I have no idea how this might be acheived — how could a future imple­men­ta­tion of Blogdex know that, say, a link is in the con­text of a refu­ta­tion, not a sup­port­ing cita­tion? — but an inclu­sive, flat­ter view of weblog inter­ac­tion would be a valu­able one.

I could go on to draw a fur­ther anal­ogy, align­ing my posi­tion with the hard­line Marx­ist view of a truly state­less soci­ety post-​revolution, and Tom’s with the reformist, so con­strained by pre-​revolutionary bour­geois sys­tems that he cannot con­ceive of unstruc­tured organ­i­sa­tion by the people. But that would be silly.

Posted at 5pm on 25/05/03 by Jack Mottram to the web category.
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  1. Thanks very much for your com­ments! It’s a good response that calls me up on a couple of things. I’m par­tic­u­larly inter­ested in find­ing alter­na­tive models and ways of improv­ing the mech­a­nisms behind the way cita­tion and com­men­tary are bring­ing con­tent to the fore. I think this stuff has to be improved at the tech­ni­cal level - how do we draw atten­tion to the best posts more effec­tively and how do we help dis­cus­sions from niche groups of people man­i­fest them­selves with the blunt­ness of tools like Daypop and Blogdex…

    Posted by Tom Coates at 7pm on 25.05.03

  2. Those are big ‘hows’ aren’t they? I guess some­thing along the lines of Memigo woven into the fabric of weblog­ging tools and RSS read­ers, com­bined with a FOAF-​style rec­om­men­da­tion net­work is the way to go… but the prob­lems that the large scale of weblog­ging brings seem unsur­mount­able and a system that allows a little-​read, unlinked to blog post rise to the top of the pile on merit alone seems an impossibility…

    Posted by Jack at 4pm on 26.05.03

  3. The impos­si­bil­ity you talk of, the little read link, is where the idea of mer­i­toc­racy in weblogs floun­ders. Self organ­i­sa­tion in blog­dom does not mirror acad­e­mia. Most blogs involve the dis­sem­i­na­tion of links and sub­jec­tive opin­ion, they have no indi­vid­ual merit until they’re val­i­dated by other sub­jec­tive opin­ion. Not all aca­d­e­mic research involves objec­tive analy­sis, with proper con­trols and exper­i­men­ta­tion. This leads to a debate of what’s acad­e­mia and that’s a trap I would rather not fall into.
    The Marx­ist view is inter­est­ing, but what of the anarcho-​syndicalist? Rail­ing against sci­en­tific social­ism. Silly of course.

    Posted by Gummi at 4pm on 27.05.03

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